I am curious to hear opinions on the concept of user karma in general.
Do people miss it?
Are we better off without it?
From a technicial perspective, I don’t see why it couldn’t be implemented. I understand Lemmy doesn’t track this explicitly. However, using a users post and comment history you could come to a number pretty easily, right? I was considering making a toy app that would take a user and instance and spit out a karma score for post and comments, what would stop others from doing the same?
Will it be inevitably pulled into existence by Lemmy users as we mature the platform?
There is a kind of subtle technical problem with karma, which is (technical) problem of trust. I haven’t looked at the Lemmy spec, much less the source, but decentralized systems always have an issue of, who can you trust?
Let’s say I want to have a user account with inflated karma for some reason. I can spin up an instance and simply assert what my karma is—and if I need to, I can create a bunch of fake accounts on my instance and create a bunch of fake posts and comments and assign fake karma scores to them, so that it can be audited.
Now if other instance owners get wise to what I’m up to, they can defederate me. But this creates a few immediate problems, including the problem of adding more administrative load to instance owners generally. The bigger problem is the witch hunting that could ensue, if a culture of karma were to develop as it has on Reddit.
That’s such a good point. There’s probably ways to get around that issue, but I take this as a sign we don’t need karma here
That is fascinating, I never considered that.
Yeah, it’s like the old saying: “on the internet, no one knows you’re a dog.” Some of the spyware-driven networks create a layer of verification by removing privacy, which we don’t want, but at least non-private networks make it easier to spot dogs.
A system to boil down the “not-shittiness” to a single value isn’t the worst idea.
Currently, it’s really hard to distinguish an average user and a bona fide asshole and a bot account.
Now, if the reddit style Karma is the right tool, I’m not sure.
I don’t think that the concept of Karma should be implemented in the Fediverse. At least not, like we know it from Reddit.
Reddit’s Karma was handled like a currency, and in order to obtain such, the overall-quality of the content declined as a result of Karma-farming.
In my opinion, the fediverse feels so new, fresh and exciting, because there is no such thing as Karma. No barrier that hinders one to post someting, because a certian count of Karma - or Lemmy-Schmeckle, call it as you want - would be needed to post something. Yet.
I don’t ever want it back. Even lot of users on Squabbles don’t want it back.
I personally think karma is mostly harmless, much like the downvote. In practice it’s the way it’s used that kinda spoils it for everyone.
I hated the karma system. It led to people doing a whole bunch of stupid one-liners like out of a marvel movie and things like cake day posts.
Edit:spelling
…is it bad that I actually liked reading one-liners and “happy cake day” comments? _;;;; TBF it’s been a while since I watched a Marvel movie, so I don’t know if the ones you hated are the ones I liked. I suppose you must be right that a lot of people just said things for karma, but I always assumed they were saying it for the lulz. Stupid one-liners seemed to be the whole point of certain subs, presumably because at least some of the people there enjoyed them.
I feel like it led to a lot of toxicity I’d like to avoid here
l liked reddit best before the points mattered.
meta-moderation is a questionable system at best (with more real research needed not admins playing with it like kids) however it works ok enough until the points matter, then they become thier own distorting effect and it starts eating itself.
the meta-mod system on reddit ate itself years ago, its why mods have so much power now.
I think these are the 5 things we can all agree to never add in Lemmy:
- Restrictions on posting based on Karma.
Abusive powermods once claimed they allowed people to post on subreddits but they completely lied and made hidden rules on Automod. This should never be allowed again. Just so we are clear, it’s both thread posting and commenting that abuse mods removed.
- Karma power
We know Reddit has done something to allow people with unrealistic karma to get special things. I say that should not be allowed. It creates bot accounts and black markets.
- No fake Karma
I know some Lemmy severs will try to cheat and make fake Karma numbers. Reddit made everyone believe your Karma had validity. Instead we should be allowed to know information on Karma. Something like a name list or API account check for developers to verify accounts. Reddit never allows anyone to check Karma, it should be a thing in case of propaganda, sellouts, farming and more.
- Mods should not get Karma
Super simple problem, fixes the issue of mod stealing Karma for themselves and stops Automod Karma problems that people finds ways to beating it. Also, no theses mod accounts can’t be posted in other places, it stays in the community. New nicknames will be needed, it’s not the user account, it’s a mod nickname alias. Something like email where you have 2 accounts and only used business for business.
- Mods that are abusing their community should be kicked out.
The community by vote should kick out the mod, it should not be the admin or other members. The community who were in for 1 month or more. If things are crazy because of admin or mods then that will make people mad and leave the community. Just like Reddit because the fedverse is not Reddit anymore.
On kbin there is “karma” although not really working correctly. Maybe make a karma and a bad karma. That will balance out the karma farmers, since it doen’t matter that you harvested 20k plus, since.the 10k minus is shown as well. With one counter you would be 10k good karma.
This is an excellent idea, just show the sum of both upvotes and downvotes, best of both worlds.
IIRC, boosts increase it and downvotes decrease it. Last time I checked I was minus 5. Thus I think of it as a QI score.
I feel like the only real use of it was to allow boards that really needed it a “Must have X karma to post” minimum to weed out bots, and after that there was no point to it.
What boards really needed it?
I know the hololive board needed it as an “official” subreddit, they would often get people trying to intentionally antagonize people, especially a few years back when they were getting bots from china constantly harassing them on reddit, twitter, and youtube anytime any of their talents tried to do anything.
It’s not as bad now, but for subreddits like that, they’d much rather you build up some karma first somewhere like virtualyoutubers where those kinds of bots wouldn’t bother posting to anyway, and any non-bots would more than likely get downvoted and not get karma if they were that kind of negative.
