Hello I just created this Account for this Question. Is it okay to support Israel in the middle east conflict? I’m from Europe and have no ties at all to any Side. Its just that I lean more to the Side of Israel then any other. Is this okay? Is it up to debate which Side is to support or is one of them clearly in the Wrong? (Like Russia is in the Wrong attacking Ukraine or Germany attacking Polland 1939).
EDIT: For clarification: Im talking about their Settlements and their military campaigns NOT about their government.
If this Post is too political please remove and I’m deeply sorry for that.
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Just as something to think about, would you support the nazi and soviet campaign into poland, and the land they won from that?
Or the british empire winning land all over the globe?
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I think a big part of this is being open to having your opinions changed. This is true for me, even on topics that I know about and have years of experience with.
As for your main point, I’d like to reiterate again: You don’t need to pick a side, and you especially shouldn’t feel forced to pick a side when you have yet to learn more about the issue.
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I just wanna say no matter your opinion, as long as it is followed by the openmindedness you just showed, you’re gonna be fine
This is an amazing attitude, one more of us would be wise to adopt.
Anyone that is familiar with that sentence immediately garners my respect
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People will claim it is, but it really isn’t. Honestly, you’ll read a lot of biased answers here.
The safest bet is to condemn the rape, murder and torture of civilians, but accept that there are no ‘good’ guys in this conflict.
To give you an idea:
You’ll read a lot of comments about how Israelis stole land from the Palestinian Arabs. But Palestinains also stole land from Palestinian Jews.
Many middle-eastern countries had significant Jewish populations before that, but almost all were forced to flee to Israel. Something like a third of Israelis are ‘Arab’ Jews or Mizrahi as the prefer to be called. They’re not ‘foreign invaders’. They’re (the family of) locals or refugees from neighbouring countries.
Hamas are horrible, and what the last few days have been deplorable, but arguably Israel helped create them.
Also, recent right-wing Israeli governments have consistently undermined any hope of a peace deal, meaning there’s no real alternative for Palestinians.
But, back in 2000 Israel did offer far reaching concessions to the Palestinians, so much so that IRC the Saudi ambassador said it would be a crime not to accept them or at least continue negotiating. But Arafat, the Palestinian leader at the time, did just that.
Also, neighbouring Arab countries claim to support Palestine, but often only on paper. When they accepted Palestinian refugees this caused them huge issues. For example in Lebanon:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Damour_massacre
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Karantina_massacre
Also, a lot of arab nationalist groups, including Palestinian ones, are virulently anti-semitic and have actual historical ties to the nazis who supported them in their fight against the colonial powers (Britain, France, etc.):
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mein_Kampf_in_Arabic#Mein_Kampf_and_Arab_nationalism
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amin_al-Husseini#Ties_with_the_Axis_Powers_during_World_War_II
But then the current Israeli government contains ultra-nationalists. One of the ministers once belonged to a banned far right terrorist organisation, labeled as such by the US and Israel. They were openly racist and supported terrorist attacks against Palestinians.
Most of Israeli immigration has been from the former Soviet Union, not the middle East… Unless you count the FSU as the Middle East… Which depending on how you want to count things for displaced peoples may be valid… And it really kicked off in the early 70s.
https://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/total-immigration-to-israel-by-year
If you re-read my comment, you’ll note I said that something like a third of Israelis are (originally from) from the middle-east or arab countries.
Wikipedia:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mizrahi_Jews
3.2 million / 9.5 million = 33.7%.
Wikipedia:
So 33% from the MENA.
15% Soviet.
Ashkenazi(mainly Europe): 2.8 million / 9.5 = 29.4%
IRC the rest are non-Jews.
That took far too long to google, which is why most people debating the whole conflict simply don’t bother. Why would they when they’ve already come to a conclusion and chosen a side? Why let the facts get in the way?
Honestly, this is why I’d rather swim in a septic tank, than spend too long debating the whole thing.
It’s closer to United States vs indigenous Americans
Nothing about the Ukrainian-Russian conflict is simple. This is based on decades of disagreements, and it’s only becoming more complicated, because history is written by the loudest asshole around
I mean it’s pretty simple to say that Russia invaded Ukraine. Twice.
That I can’t deny. They are very clearly known for agitating their neighbors, and their nationalists causing mass chaos in places that they think belong to them
Yeah Russia are pretty good at kicking the dirt up and spreading a lot of propaganda, but if you look at the hard points it’s pretty clear cut.
The same isn’t true of Israel and Palestine. Going through what each side has done to the other and trying to weigh it and figure out which side is worse is a futile exercise that does nothing to stop further violence from happening.
It’s very simple actually. Russia invaded a souvereign country. The end.
That is a factually correct statement, I never said it isn’t
Israel’s wars have been defensive.
That wasn’t part of the question/example. I was responding to “land won in war”
Maybe think if by the same logic you also support Russia’s “ownership” of Crimea and Eastern Ukranine territory. If you don’t support that, then maybe you’ve been propaganded.
Uh… Since you seem new to the topic, I’d recommend you look up Israeli treatment of Palestinians in Gaza, the West Bank, East Palestine and Israel proper (they’re all bad for different reasons, but the order of badness goes like this), and how the settlement process works. Note: It usually involves Palestinians being forced off their homes.