However, the government indicated to the Guardian that it would continue to push hydrogen for home heating, and the body that represents most of the heating industry also vowed to continue to pursue it
If the tory government, and big oil industry, are pushing for something specific, then I assume its a terrible idea and is being used as a distraction. This reads to me as a way for them to distract from other viable options and grind the change away from fossil fuels to a halt
Green hydrogen from renewables makes sense to help load balance. Most newish boilers can burn hydrogen, and the infrastructure is in place already, so it makes sense as a transition fuel
Heat pumps take outside heat into the building, which means per kWh of electricity they produce more then 3 kWh of heat. Since hot water can be stored with ease, all it takes a big water tank with good insulation, hydrogen storage is not needed in this case. Also there are to the best of my knowledge no boilers able to burn both 100% hydrogen and 100% natural gas. The 100% hydrogen ones are even more expensive then heat pumps right now. That is to purchase running them is even more expensive.
This is a fairytale to pretend hydrogen can just be used instead of gas to not see a huge push for heat pumps, but keep gas infrastructure in place.
The cost to rip out all boilers and replace them with heat pumps is a fantasy. You’re looking at 10k with all the tanks etc. Not going to happen.
As a transition fuel, green hydrogen makes sense, new boilers can burn a hydrogen mix and all the gas pipes in the UK are in the process of having plastic inserts installed so hydrogen won’t escape.
You either make hydrogen with renewables, with the cost on a par with fossil fuel methods, which is already happening, or have to use batteries, batteries are full of rare earth minerals and are also expensive.
A new hydrogen boiler costs 30k today. A new gas boiler is also not much cheaper then a heat pump and certainly more expensive to operate. Also if you can produce hydrogen on cost of fossil fuels, you could just convert some gas power plants to use hydrogen instead, as a backup. With heat pumps using enviromental heat as well, you end up using about as much hydrogen as when you burn it directly.
The key part is, you just can not just burn hydrogen in an old gas boiler. Even new ones can only burn mixtures. So installing new gas boilers instead of heat pumps is just wasting energy for no reason.
A gas boiler that can burn 30% hydrogen is less than £3k. I just bought one, and the cost of the heat pump was £10k. Plus electricicty is at least 4x more expensive than gas, so there is no saving.
The economics just don’t work. No one is going to replace their existing boiler with a heat pump.
Converting gas turbines to burn hydrogen is a good idea. We need multiple solutions to transition. There is no silver bullet
however the cheapest way to make hydrogen is from fossil fuels, so it also continues to line the pockets of the fossil fuel industry until people figure that out and mount enough pressure to force another transition
Not the cheapest way to make green hydrogen. Anyone claiming gray is green needs a time out We need solutions to get off oil not problems.
The only issue with hydrogen in using existing infrastructure is hydrogen itself. It’s a tiny leaky pain to store and transport so what’s good for LPG is not the same for hydrogen. Understanding limitations and either replacing or updating is the only path to permanent successful change.
Green hydrogen makes sense as a means of storing electricity from renewables, and for use in some transport applications where batteries aren’t workable. But it’s quite inefficient so it doesn’t make sense to burn hydrogen (green or otherwise) as an alternative to heat pumps. And it’s the “otherwise” that really matters. Making home heating dependent on hydrogen opens the door to other colours of hydrogen, which is exactly what Big Carbon is pushing for.
Yeah that’s stupid. We won’t have a abundance of hydrogen, or extra energy to burn for years to come.
This hydrogen boiler thing is just a measure to stay on fossils for longer, because certain models will have problems with it and there won’t be enough hydrogen available. Which means oil companies will benefit.
If the tory government, and big oil industry, are pushing for something specific, then I assume its a terrible idea and is being used as a distraction. This reads to me as a way for them to distract from other viable options and grind the change away from fossil fuels to a halt
Green hydrogen from renewables makes sense to help load balance. Most newish boilers can burn hydrogen, and the infrastructure is in place already, so it makes sense as a transition fuel
Plus
https://www.theguardian.com/business/2023/oct/09/worlds-largest-offshore-windfarm-project-starts-powering-uk-grid
Heat pumps take outside heat into the building, which means per kWh of electricity they produce more then 3 kWh of heat. Since hot water can be stored with ease, all it takes a big water tank with good insulation, hydrogen storage is not needed in this case. Also there are to the best of my knowledge no boilers able to burn both 100% hydrogen and 100% natural gas. The 100% hydrogen ones are even more expensive then heat pumps right now. That is to purchase running them is even more expensive.
This is a fairytale to pretend hydrogen can just be used instead of gas to not see a huge push for heat pumps, but keep gas infrastructure in place.
How’s that green lpg going
Biogas works, but to use it for heating is just a massive waste.
The cost to rip out all boilers and replace them with heat pumps is a fantasy. You’re looking at 10k with all the tanks etc. Not going to happen.
As a transition fuel, green hydrogen makes sense, new boilers can burn a hydrogen mix and all the gas pipes in the UK are in the process of having plastic inserts installed so hydrogen won’t escape.
You either make hydrogen with renewables, with the cost on a par with fossil fuel methods, which is already happening, or have to use batteries, batteries are full of rare earth minerals and are also expensive.
A new hydrogen boiler costs 30k today. A new gas boiler is also not much cheaper then a heat pump and certainly more expensive to operate. Also if you can produce hydrogen on cost of fossil fuels, you could just convert some gas power plants to use hydrogen instead, as a backup. With heat pumps using enviromental heat as well, you end up using about as much hydrogen as when you burn it directly.
The key part is, you just can not just burn hydrogen in an old gas boiler. Even new ones can only burn mixtures. So installing new gas boilers instead of heat pumps is just wasting energy for no reason.
A gas boiler that can burn 30% hydrogen is less than £3k. I just bought one, and the cost of the heat pump was £10k. Plus electricicty is at least 4x more expensive than gas, so there is no saving.
The economics just don’t work. No one is going to replace their existing boiler with a heat pump.
Converting gas turbines to burn hydrogen is a good idea. We need multiple solutions to transition. There is no silver bullet
Yeah, something is not right:
https://www.forbes.com/home-improvement/hvac/heat-pump-installation-cost/
The average is £10k in the UK
https://www.theecoexperts.co.uk/heat-pumps/cost-guide
The boiler I bought was 2k fitted
https://www.cityplumbing.co.uk/p/glow-worm-energy7-30c-30kw-combi-boiler-with-horizontal-flue-power-filter-and-10-year-warranty-10035897/p/479002
however the cheapest way to make hydrogen is from fossil fuels, so it also continues to line the pockets of the fossil fuel industry until people figure that out and mount enough pressure to force another transition
Not the cheapest way to make green hydrogen. Anyone claiming gray is green needs a time out We need solutions to get off oil not problems.
The only issue with hydrogen in using existing infrastructure is hydrogen itself. It’s a tiny leaky pain to store and transport so what’s good for LPG is not the same for hydrogen. Understanding limitations and either replacing or updating is the only path to permanent successful change.
It it’s not to worry solutions exist
https://publications.csiro.au/rpr/pub?pid=csiro:EP172829
https://www.spglobal.com/marketintelligence/en/news-insights/latest-news-headlines/experts-explain-why-green-hydrogen-costs-have-fallen-and-will-keep-falling-63037203
Green hydrogen makes sense as a means of storing electricity from renewables, and for use in some transport applications where batteries aren’t workable. But it’s quite inefficient so it doesn’t make sense to burn hydrogen (green or otherwise) as an alternative to heat pumps. And it’s the “otherwise” that really matters. Making home heating dependent on hydrogen opens the door to other colours of hydrogen, which is exactly what Big Carbon is pushing for.
Yeah that’s stupid. We won’t have a abundance of hydrogen, or extra energy to burn for years to come. This hydrogen boiler thing is just a measure to stay on fossils for longer, because certain models will have problems with it and there won’t be enough hydrogen available. Which means oil companies will benefit.
Renewables are peaky, how do you propose we smooth those peaks? Hydrogen or batteries seem the only two viable options for energy storage.
Plus you can make ammonia from renewables for use as a ship fuel or fertilizer
Btw energy companies are the ones with the capital to fund the transition off fossil fuels, how else do you propose funding it?