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You literally listed off everything Israel is doing. Good job.
Israel’s killed over 11k civilians since Oct 7th.
Israel’s bombed over 20 hospitals.
Israel refused to take their hostages back even when Hamas offered them in exchange for the Palestinians hostages Israel has. Then bombed the locations they know hostages were at.
Hamas is using hospitals as staging grounds to fire rockets at Israel, over 9,500 rockets so far since Oct 7th.
The hostage exchange was for a ceasefire that Hamas wanted so they could regroup and start attacking Israel from stronger positions. And they only offered 15 of the 200+ hostages. It was fucking bullshit, and Israel was right to reject it.
nothing really found in the hospitals yet - https://apnews.com/article/israel-hamas-war-news-11-16-2023-6c7daa3b8c3a6b8dddf186ce631dfaad
We know Hamas fighters have been using the hospitals to stage rocket attacks, and fire out of. Whether there is an actual base of operations hidden in them is beyond the point, Hamas uses civilian infrastructure to fire at Israel from. They have said as much, they fight from among civilians to get Israel to kill civilians so Israel looks bad to the world. It’s how Hamas operates.
where is your citation?
edit: even if there is, that does not justify the shelling of hospitals by the IDF
There was an article on the active page of Lemmy yesterday with confirmation of Hamas fighting from a major hospital.
So it should be easy for you to link it. That is, if it does prove your point and exists in the first place. Because right now your source is “trust me bro”.
https://www.i24news.tv/en/news/israel-at-war/1699881898-idf-releases-footage-of-hamas-firing-rpg-from-gaza-city-hospital
https://www.aol.com/news/israel-clashes-hamas-major-hospital-162417982.html
Of course it justifies it. Why wouldn’t it?
Because of the geneva conventions about protections civilians.
What does the Geneva Convention say about using civilians as human shields? What does the Geneva Convention say about using hospitals, schools, places of worship as military headquarters or outposts? What does the Geneva Convention say about murdering civilians to prevent them from evacuating from an area that is under attack?
There are protected symbols such as the red cross and red crescent that you are not allowed to misuse. But it is also clear that everyone is responsible for not doing any war crimes. So even if your enemy does a war crime you are not allowed. Normally the only protected places along the ones you have listed are hospitals. All have to do their best to protect civilians, you are not allowed to engage an enemy if there are big risks of damaging no-combatants, e.g. if a small group of enemy combatants is traveling through an area filled with civilians, you are not allowed to target that area just because the few targets. Military targets have to travel is areas with civilians all the time. Targeting civilians is always a war crime. All actions have to be proportional. There is never an excuse to commit a war crime. Even if the enemy targets hospitals, like Russia, is accused of in Ukraine, that does not give Ukraine forces any permission to attack Russian hospitals. If Hamas shoots civilians, it doesn’t excuse IDF to do the same. Even if IDF shoots civilians, Hamas is not allowed to do the same. In technical terms, you could discuss the theoretical coverage of the Geneva Convention as such for the Gaza strip. The amendments around it may or may not regulate how Israel and IDF are allowed to operate. It was written for regular wars between nations, if, when, how, and stuff get into civil wars. What happens then is a bit more unclear. There are regulations about occupied territories, that Gaza falls into.
We don’t know that, that’s just what Israel claims. Israel is known to lie about that stuff.
There is video of weapons fire coming from hospitals, so we do have that.
And Hamas is constantly lying too, yet everyone on this site seems to eat up everything they say.
Hamas has not lied as blatantly as Israel. The death tolls they have reported have typically been corroborated by later independent sources.
What does weapons fire actually imply in a territory subjected to constant bombing and siege warfare? It’s not like hospitals are safe from bombings and other attacks, so being armed in a gaza hospital is simply the intelligent thing to do
Most independent sources I’ve seen reporting on numbers have been Palestinians. The UN is not reporting on casualties because it cannot verify any of the claimed numbers.
And Hamas lied about 500 Palestinians being killed in one attack on a hospital by Israel, except it turned out that attack was actually Islamic Jihadists misfiring, and nowhere near 500 people died.
Hamas verifiably made up that 5% of the casualties in this war, so no, you shouldn’t believe the rest of their numbers.
And Hamas has fired thousands of rockets into Israeli territory since Oct. 7th, that goes beyond defending yourself in a hospital.
And the bombing and siege warfare started after Hamas invaded Israel, killed over a thousand civilians, and fired thousands of rockets at Israeli cities.
Pretty sure that attack was actually done by Israel, if we are talking about the same thing. Hamas fired thousands of rockets because Israel is genociding them, essentially via siege warfare. The media simply decided not to cover all of the preceding heinous shit Israel did to provoke it, because the capitalist class owns the media. You should really start verifying the truth of random news stories you read, because it sounds like you believe the myth being spread by Western media that Israel is the good guy. Israel is committing genocide, and so it really doesn’t matter at all what Hamas or Palestine has done in response.
Netanyahu be like… “Hmm, they are going to attack but if I stop them I may still go to jail, but if I don’t then I get more power… Let me have the Kushners put me in touch with Donny to see what he’d do.”
Bullshit statistic until it is verified by independent sources. Currently, the only source for that number is Hamas and they have a great reason for exaggerating it.
In past conflicts, the death toll provided by Hamas (if you call the Ministry of Health in Gaza that) was largely accurate and didn’t differ much from independent counts conducted by the UN.
This article has an example on how it was in a conflict in 2014. There is another article that had more examples, but I cannot find it. It was from the Guardian I believe.
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-67347201
Great list
I feel hospitals (warcrime) were visible from satellites and independent sources covered it.
Attacking a hospital is not a warcrime if the hospital is used for military operations.
The only sources that the hospital was being used for military operations was the IDF who is known for lying. They even showed pictures of metal objects in the same room as an MRI. Literally something you would never do because an MRI will destroy anything metal.
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/middle-east/israel-gaza-al-shifa-hospital-idf-palestine-b2448500.html
https://x.com/muhammadshehad2/status/1724782542304559215?s=20
https://mobile.mako.co.il/news-military/6361323ddea5a810/Article-b124ea2e7bfcb81027.htm
All they do is lie
https://www.cnn.com/2023/10/12/middleeast/israel-hamas-beheading-claims-intl/index.html
They said a calendar was a “terrorist list”. A literal calendar.
https://electronicintifada.net/blogs/ali-abunimah/need-comic-relief-watch-israels-pr-stunt-collapse
They even higher actors
https://dohanews.co/disinformation-experts-call-out-israeli-theatrics-for-using-actress-to-play-anti-hamas-nurse/
It is, you have the right to defend yourself if the opponent is attacking from inside. But no even if the enemy is doing a war crime by using non-combatants as protection you are not allowed to engage them in that situation. You are allowed to inspect a hospital or ambulance to make sure the enemy isn’t using it to transport or hide munitions. You are not allowed to attack anything marked with protected signs, such as the Red Cross, red crescent, or red diamond. If you as a solder break these rules, even on a direct order you are still personally responsible and might be judged in national or international courts. In practice, it might be hard to get soldiers to stand trial for these crimes. But it has happened. All my education in this has been in Swedish from the Swedish armed forces so some translations might be wrong.
Removed by mod
Israel is not allowing anyone to to conduct outside verification, and hasn’t for literal years. They deny UN workers visas, disallow any humanitarian worker from entering or leaving Gaza ( https://www.hrw.org/report/2017/04/03/unwilling-or-unable/israeli-restrictions-access-and-gaza-human-rights-workers)
but Hamas is not fighting outside verification. The UN has also repeatedly verified hamas’ death counts in previous instances.
That alone should tell you whose statistic you should be more trusting of, and it’s not israels.
Except that in this case, the UN is explicitly saying that the numbers they’re quoting cannot be verified and they’re merely cutting the numbers Hamas is giving them.
So the question is: if the IDF cannot be trusted, why should we trust the terrorists?
yea exactly I’m sick of all this whataboutism about Hamas. Hamas is the sole response to the atrocities that the idf has started. they hold all the power in this situation, they have killed many many many more people then Hamas ever could. They have also committed and are committing insane like Nazi level war crimes and all we get is… okay but Hamas bad.
also lets not forget… most Palestinians didn’t even want Hamas. they havent had an actiall election in almost two decades. Because it’s literally not safe enough because the idf keeps bombing them.
stop all the back and forth finger pointing, America could pull funding from isreal, instead of this E fleas posturing. If isreal wanted peace then we could hve peace but there will never be peace until the idf stops bombing refugee camps and hospitals lol.
so sick of all this whataboutism, obviously any killing is wrong but Hamas is just a glorified token a red herring being used to justify brutality on a Holocaust level scale. and we need to stop allowing it.
Not for lack of trying. If it weren’t for the billions of dollars spent on the Iron Dome every year, and the Israeli intelligence apparatus allowing them to evacuate their cities before attacks, many more Israelis would be dead. Attempted murder by Hamas is still atrocious.
Hamas still had broad support as of 2020, so no most Palestinians do want Hamas.
Tell Hamas to stop using them as bases of operation and firing rockets at Israel from those locations then. Hamas wants dead Palestinian civilians, that’s their goal in the war to make Israel look bad.
It pains me to admit but that works and I think Israel does look bad because of this. Also when you have people indoctrinated to the level that they will gladly act as a shield to become martyres it is hard to fight clean :( I haven’t thought about this possibility before