• Skua@kbin.earth
    link
    fedilink
    arrow-up
    20
    arrow-down
    6
    ·
    edit-2
    5 months ago

    The “deal” requires Ukraine to cede a colossal amount of territory before negotiations even begin. Even if the Ukrainian leadership was willing to give up all of that for peace, doing so here would not actually even buy them peace, only a start to negotiations that could collapse at any time. That’s about as diplomatic an offer as Ukraine saying “pre-2014 borders and then we can talk.”

    • ☆ Yσɠƚԋσʂ ☆@lemmy.mlOP
      link
      fedilink
      arrow-up
      10
      arrow-down
      11
      ·
      5 months ago

      Ukraine will lose more territory going forward, that’s the fact of the situation. Russia is winning the war, and it’s pretty clear that the west is not able to do anything about it.

      • Skua@kbin.earth
        link
        fedilink
        arrow-up
        13
        arrow-down
        5
        ·
        5 months ago

        That’s a hard shift from “Russia is being diplomatic” to “Russia can just take what it wants”

        • ☆ Yσɠƚԋσʂ ☆@lemmy.mlOP
          link
          fedilink
          arrow-up
          7
          arrow-down
          10
          ·
          5 months ago

          Russia is being diplomatic, but if nobody wants to do diplomacy on the other end then they’re obviously going to take what they want by force at that point. Not sure what’s so hard to understand here.

          • Skua@kbin.earth
            link
            fedilink
            arrow-up
            12
            arrow-down
            6
            ·
            5 months ago

            It’s not meaningful diplomacy to say “give us everything we want or we will take everything we want”

            • ☆ Yσɠƚԋσʂ ☆@lemmy.mlOP
              link
              fedilink
              arrow-up
              9
              arrow-down
              6
              ·
              5 months ago

              Yeah it is when you are in a position of power. This is precisely how NATO has been conducting diplomacy with Yugoslavia, Libya, Syria, Afghanistan, and Iraq.

              • Skua@kbin.earth
                link
                fedilink
                arrow-up
                8
                arrow-down
                4
                ·
                5 months ago

                Oh right, so do you consider America’s behaviour towards Afghanistan diplomatic then?

                • ☆ Yσɠƚԋσʂ ☆@lemmy.mlOP
                  link
                  fedilink
                  arrow-up
                  7
                  arrow-down
                  6
                  ·
                  5 months ago

                  I’m just explaining to you how the real world works here. That said, Russia gave Ukraine way more chances than US gave any of the countries it invaded.

                  • Skua@kbin.earth
                    link
                    fedilink
                    arrow-up
                    8
                    arrow-down
                    4
                    ·
                    5 months ago

                    You said Russia was being diplomatic. Nobody is arguing that powerful countries are often cruel. So again, if this is Russia’s diplomacy towards Ukraine, do you agree that America was diplomatic towards Afghanistan?