Perhaps if they made decisions like this more often in recent times there would be more people there when they do good stuff.
Edit: Cool to see someone botting this thread as well. I have now watched on three separate occasions someone vote up on mine and others comments only for a vote down to be applied within 10 seconds - 5 minutes in lockstep each time. This was in the first 15 minutes of the comment being posted.
2nd Edit. I’ve watched it happen 8 times now actually. I wonder what the odds are that over the course of ~2 hours there is exactly 8 people who agree and exactly 8 who don’t who keep showing up within moments of one another.
Like integration state partitioning for the entire browser context, user-controllable?
Like adding vertical tabs?
Like background wallpaper options for new tab independent of themes?
Like site translations?
Like working on tab groups?
Like working on tablet UI options?
Like … okay I’ll stop.
Like with red traffic lights vs green traffic lights, always keep in mind that your brain does not want to actively notice/recall things going well. It’s when things are annoying/interrupting that you remember.
Any sites out there even serving JXL? With a “global usage” of 13%, I don’t see many developers wasting their time on it unless there’s some niche use case that requires it.
All I intend to say is that if I left when Mozilla thought it was a good idea to have an advertising company become involved in the development of their products and started tracking users without their consent (even if less invasively than cookies) with PPA, then surely I am not the only one who left.
This is a company that has previously sideloaded an extension into the browser without user permissions because of a marketing deal they made with a television show. As a result, I’m afraid im less concerned with the not-yet implemented features they may be working on or the features they have in place when there are a litany of other browsers available which don’t fuck around with user permissions and privacy for advertising deals.
If I wanted a browser for tab grouping and UI stuff, I’d move to vivaldi, but at the moment firefox just doesn’t seem to have the best UI or the best security and both of those are directly related to Mozilla’s choices.
You are certainly entitled to your opinion and it is valid, but I think that my criticisms are also valid and are not baseless.
Oh for sure criticism is valid, but it’s funny how people always forget all the actual good stuff being added, too.
In general, not just Firefox-specific. People constantly forget how while Google search results have gone to shit, empyrical analysis showed that it went to shit more for other search engines (meaning if anything Google got comparatively better, but of course everyone got worse across the board, too). People constantly forget over all their little issues how some countries, including mine, have swapped >50% of their energy (from ~0%) to green energy in just 10 or so years. It’s too easy to see only the negative things.
Yes, it’s true that some good things have been added, I suppose my concern is just that I feel the negative things in the case of firefox hold greater weights when compared to the positive things they have done.
As a euphemism; a cruise ship adding a bowling alley, better seating, and fine art to its interior is neat and might make it look better and more convenient but it doesn’t mean much to me if they also added an engine which spews 50% more pollution into the atmosphere and poisons me.
Having fucked an entire ecosystem of UI-modifying plugins, seven years prior. Still not matching the functionality of that decades-running, userbase-driven experimentation. I want my goddamn multi-row tabs back.
Mozilla doesn’t get kudos for tiny improvements as if they cancel out huge blunders. Killing vertical tabs by killing XUL also severely limited DownThemAll, and they spent a year ignoring pleas from the guy that gave their browser and their browser alone the best download plugin to-date. He eventually managed to “just rewrite!” and claw most functionality back from Chrome’s tightassed tool-kit. Most authors did not. Most authors had not, since the browser fucking launched. I can barely remember how much functionality I’ve lost, thanks to Mozilla refusing to respect plugin devs and formalize any lasting API. The best bits did come back, thanks to other authors who also missed those features… until they too burned out and fucked off.
But hey! Mozilla also made some clever tweaks inside the only software project that advertises their true passion for smartphones I mean chat I mean crypto I mean AI I mean $nextbigtrend, so it’s squaresies.
Certainly possible but I’m sure the odds are astronomically low. After I saw this happen 3 times I started refreshing every minute and each time there was a change, both counts had increased, and this happened 8 times in a row. I could see a distribution happening of something like a vote up at minute 2, vote down at minute 3 vote up at minute 12, vote down at minute 20, etc, but this was - vote up and vote down at minute 5, same thing at minute 11, same thing at minute 16, etc, 8 times concurrently (the minutes listed here are an example, I wasn’t tracking exact time between events).
I reported their comment for suspected downvote manipulation earlier and requested the admins investigate the votes. Now I came back and 10 of the downvotes were slashed off of it.
So it seems like those ‘astronomically low odds’ turned out to be at least partially correct. Otherwise why would the admins have slashed 10 downvotes from the post. It feels like the odds that 10 people had a change of heart are more astronomically low than the more likely reason which is that they got their votes slashed and their accounts banned by the admins due to an investigation finding them to be downvote bots or downvote trolls.
Fascinating, didn’t know moderators could investigate such things effectively (I was unaware of any mod tool that made that easy to do).
Its early so I only had time to take a cursory glance and the vote counts were still looking the same to me - which one had the votes removed after your report?
Good to hear nonetheless, definitely felt something was up, thanks!
Well it’s actually only Admins and instance-level moderators who can do it at the current time. Regular community mods can’t see them or pull them up, at least not in the current version of Lemmy.
It was his main comment which had the votes slashed, it was sitting at -40 but was slashed to -30. Speaking in terms of raw downvotes not just score. The +42 score it had didn’t change at all.
Just so you know, some of us actually read through a chain of comments first, trying to get the full argument before making judgements, and then go back and upvote and downvote all the comments quickly in a row. So, that might seem like a bot doing it at the same time, but its just someone batch voting after reading.
To make it clear what I am talking about - I would expect any voting distribution for 16 votes to be at least semi-random on a controversial comment, in example such as this:
However, the distribution as it occurred looked like this on the first 16 votes:
A controversial comment will have such a ratio, but any comment controversial or not will almost never have this kind of distribution unless there are multiple accounts waiting for vote up events to occur so that they can send a vote down.
I can believe this happening 2, 3, even 4 times by chance, but not 8 times.
I’m entirely aware, I’m specifically referencing my top level comment which at the time had no replies.
Additionally, what you are describing does not explain both a vote up and vote down, occurring at the same time 8 times consecutively, so I’m not quite sure I understand what your point is as what actions occurred prior to hitting the button doesn’t enter into what I’m describing as far as I can determine.
Even if people read a thread before scrolling back up and hitting the up or down button, them hitting that button at the same time as someone else hitting the opposing button 8 times in a row within a few moments of each other is still a statistical anomaly.
See my other comment in which I graphed what I am talking about in order to better explain myself.
Perhaps if they made decisions like this more often in recent times there would be more people there when they do good stuff.
Edit: Cool to see someone botting this thread as well. I have now watched on three separate occasions someone vote up on mine and others comments only for a vote down to be applied within 10 seconds - 5 minutes in lockstep each time. This was in the first 15 minutes of the comment being posted.
2nd Edit. I’ve watched it happen 8 times now actually. I wonder what the odds are that over the course of ~2 hours there is exactly 8 people who agree and exactly 8 who don’t who keep showing up within moments of one another.
You mean like isolating cookies?
Like integration state partitioning for the entire browser context, user-controllable?
Like adding vertical tabs?
Like background wallpaper options for new tab independent of themes?
Like site translations?
Like working on tab groups?
Like working on tablet UI options?
Like … okay I’ll stop.
Like with red traffic lights vs green traffic lights, always keep in mind that your brain does not want to actively notice/recall things going well. It’s when things are annoying/interrupting that you remember.
No, not like that! JUST LET ME BE HATEFUL FFS
Vertical tabs? I’ve been using an extension for that so I didn’t even notice. Is that already on the main release or still on the nightlies?
Sorry for asking here but a DDG search just turns out a bunch of pages telling you how to get them with extensions, which I already do.
Its still experimental, (in nightly), and a bit unpolished so id stick with the extensions for now
I use it but…keeps waiting for jxl
I’m jealous of Safari users
Any sites out there even serving JXL? With a “global usage” of 13%, I don’t see many developers wasting their time on it unless there’s some niche use case that requires it.
Hard to use without browser support
Thanks.
All I intend to say is that if I left when Mozilla thought it was a good idea to have an advertising company become involved in the development of their products and started tracking users without their consent (even if less invasively than cookies) with PPA, then surely I am not the only one who left.
This is a company that has previously sideloaded an extension into the browser without user permissions because of a marketing deal they made with a television show. As a result, I’m afraid im less concerned with the not-yet implemented features they may be working on or the features they have in place when there are a litany of other browsers available which don’t fuck around with user permissions and privacy for advertising deals.
If I wanted a browser for tab grouping and UI stuff, I’d move to vivaldi, but at the moment firefox just doesn’t seem to have the best UI or the best security and both of those are directly related to Mozilla’s choices.
You are certainly entitled to your opinion and it is valid, but I think that my criticisms are also valid and are not baseless.
Oh for sure criticism is valid, but it’s funny how people always forget all the actual good stuff being added, too.
In general, not just Firefox-specific. People constantly forget how while Google search results have gone to shit, empyrical analysis showed that it went to shit more for other search engines (meaning if anything Google got comparatively better, but of course everyone got worse across the board, too). People constantly forget over all their little issues how some countries, including mine, have swapped >50% of their energy (from ~0%) to green energy in just 10 or so years. It’s too easy to see only the negative things.
Yes, it’s true that some good things have been added, I suppose my concern is just that I feel the negative things in the case of firefox hold greater weights when compared to the positive things they have done.
As a euphemism; a cruise ship adding a bowling alley, better seating, and fine art to its interior is neat and might make it look better and more convenient but it doesn’t mean much to me if they also added an engine which spews 50% more pollution into the atmosphere and poisons me.
Having fucked an entire ecosystem of UI-modifying plugins, seven years prior. Still not matching the functionality of that decades-running, userbase-driven experimentation. I want my goddamn multi-row tabs back.
Mozilla doesn’t get kudos for tiny improvements as if they cancel out huge blunders. Killing vertical tabs by killing XUL also severely limited DownThemAll, and they spent a year ignoring pleas from the guy that gave their browser and their browser alone the best download plugin to-date. He eventually managed to “just rewrite!” and claw most functionality back from Chrome’s tightassed tool-kit. Most authors did not. Most authors had not, since the browser fucking launched. I can barely remember how much functionality I’ve lost, thanks to Mozilla refusing to respect plugin devs and formalize any lasting API. The best bits did come back, thanks to other authors who also missed those features… until they too burned out and fucked off.
But hey! Mozilla also made some clever tweaks inside the only software project that advertises their true passion for smartphones I mean chat I mean crypto I mean AI I mean $nextbigtrend, so it’s squaresies.
No clue. I doubt it’s a conspiracy, though. Just seems like a controversial take.
Certainly possible but I’m sure the odds are astronomically low. After I saw this happen 3 times I started refreshing every minute and each time there was a change, both counts had increased, and this happened 8 times in a row. I could see a distribution happening of something like a vote up at minute 2, vote down at minute 3 vote up at minute 12, vote down at minute 20, etc, but this was - vote up and vote down at minute 5, same thing at minute 11, same thing at minute 16, etc, 8 times concurrently (the minutes listed here are an example, I wasn’t tracking exact time between events).
I reported their comment for suspected downvote manipulation earlier and requested the admins investigate the votes. Now I came back and 10 of the downvotes were slashed off of it. So it seems like those ‘astronomically low odds’ turned out to be at least partially correct. Otherwise why would the admins have slashed 10 downvotes from the post. It feels like the odds that 10 people had a change of heart are more astronomically low than the more likely reason which is that they got their votes slashed and their accounts banned by the admins due to an investigation finding them to be downvote bots or downvote trolls.
Fascinating, didn’t know moderators could investigate such things effectively (I was unaware of any mod tool that made that easy to do).
Its early so I only had time to take a cursory glance and the vote counts were still looking the same to me - which one had the votes removed after your report?
Good to hear nonetheless, definitely felt something was up, thanks!
Well it’s actually only Admins and instance-level moderators who can do it at the current time. Regular community mods can’t see them or pull them up, at least not in the current version of Lemmy.
It was his main comment which had the votes slashed, it was sitting at -40 but was slashed to -30. Speaking in terms of raw downvotes not just score. The +42 score it had didn’t change at all.
I see, thanks!
Im pretty sure you’re seeing a pattern where there isnt one, your post is just controversial
As I said, certainly possible, I was just surprised by the distribution over time, not the distribution of vote type.
Just so you know, some of us actually read through a chain of comments first, trying to get the full argument before making judgements, and then go back and upvote and downvote all the comments quickly in a row. So, that might seem like a bot doing it at the same time, but its just someone batch voting after reading.
To make it clear what I am talking about - I would expect any voting distribution for 16 votes to be at least semi-random on a controversial comment, in example such as this:
However, the distribution as it occurred looked like this on the first 16 votes:
A controversial comment will have such a ratio, but any comment controversial or not will almost never have this kind of distribution unless there are multiple accounts waiting for vote up events to occur so that they can send a vote down.
I can believe this happening 2, 3, even 4 times by chance, but not 8 times.
I’m entirely aware, I’m specifically referencing my top level comment which at the time had no replies.
Additionally, what you are describing does not explain both a vote up and vote down, occurring at the same time 8 times consecutively, so I’m not quite sure I understand what your point is as what actions occurred prior to hitting the button doesn’t enter into what I’m describing as far as I can determine.
Even if people read a thread before scrolling back up and hitting the up or down button, them hitting that button at the same time as someone else hitting the opposing button 8 times in a row within a few moments of each other is still a statistical anomaly.
See my other comment in which I graphed what I am talking about in order to better explain myself.
There were 10 or so no content account downvoters that I just banned, but also a lot of genuine downvotes.
Thanks Dessalines!