- cross-posted to:
- usa@lemmy.ml
- politics@beehaw.org
- cross-posted to:
- usa@lemmy.ml
- politics@beehaw.org
Summary
Historians suggest Democrats might have fared better against Donald Trump by embracing the economic issues championed by Senator Bernie Sanders, who has long pushed for a focus on “bread-and-butter” concerns for working-class voters.
Despite Kamala Harris’s progressive policies, polls showed Trump was favored on economic issues, particularly among working-class and Hispanic voters.
Historian Leah Wright Rigueur argued that Sanders’ messaging on economic struggles could be key for future Democratic strategies.
Sanders himself criticized the party for “abandoning” the working class, which he said has led to a loss of support across racial lines.
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If democrats were capable of listening we wouldnt have two terms of donald trump.
Not even a single term
Hell, if the US could finally get rid of this first past the pole, winner takes all system, the democratic and Republican parties wouldn’t even exist anymore, they’d both be replaced by better parties
I usually vote along with the democrats, but neoliberals are so freaking elitist and clueless. As much as it pisses me off that I’m going to have to deal with whatever fascist bs Trump has in store, it’s really quite nice seeing them get their asses handed to them by a populist… It’s just too bad it wasn’t a left-wing populist.
I vote for Democrats because I kinda half to, not because I want to.
I wanted to vote for Sanders. I voted for Biden and Harris.
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Ive always liked Bernie. Bernie demonstrates the Democratic party would much rather lose with Kamala than win with Bernie. Never thought I would see them campaigning with Dik Cheney, the mask fell away for a few moments on that one.
I legit could not believe they accepted that endorsement at all, much less ran with it as hard as they did.
Democrats should have listened to Bernie Sanders, Captain Obvious says.
The more Dems and Progressives think and sound like Bernie, the better.
You guys need to think of the DNC as more of a for profit business.
From that perspective, they were super successful in making so much money.
Remember, there can be more money made when you intentionally lose, similar to butch in pulp fiction.
Every single text i got had donate in the first sentence. The DNC had a very singular message this cycle and it was donate. It shows the flaws in the system and it shows the flaws in the party. Until i start seeing serious conversations about serious fuckin issues like repealing Citizens United, universal healthcare and proper privacy laws I can no longer consider the DNC a serious organization.
And just to clarify, gender identity, abortion rights, reproductive rights all fall into privacy for me. It’s only my business.
And it should be, those harm no one but yourself, and it shouldn’t even be harmful then. What someone identifies, had an abortion, who they love, shouldn’t impact me or anyone else.
Republicans demand that since they find it immoral, we should have it impact to the general public. The right to privacy being implied but never codified in America is such a massive blow to the rights of citizens.
https://www.cnn.com/politics/elections/presidential-candidates-money-raised-dg
Harris had the most money for her run and still begged for money from the people who were being hurt by no minimum wage, affordable healthcare, living paycheck to paycheck.
The RNC had more funding than the DNC, not sure if that’s common or unique this one. While I didn’t get any texts for “send money to Trump” texts, that might be because I’ve used my phone for aiding Democrats in office so they probably saw it as a waste of money.
Remember, the DNC admitted in court that they are an unaccountable private corporation
If we had run Bernie in 2016, Trump would still be nothing but a punchline.
Yes, because Trump’s second term would now be over.
Clinton lost. Sanders couldn’t possibly do worse than her lmao
Lol at this delusional lib rewriting history that somehow Clinton won over trump 😂
It’s one think to think that Sanders is correct, but to think that the American people would have voted for him in 2016 is just extremely delusional.
Every trump voter I know would of went for him. Explain how counties that twice went to Obama in a landslide magically flipped to trump in a landslide. You won’t.
Here’s a map of donations for the 2020 primary, you make of that what you will.
In 2016 Sanders was 10 point above trump
Okay, maybe he would have alienated like a small percentage of liberals that thought he was “too radical” and he will bring a holodomor on the US for some reason. Maybe some of those Bernie bros were just troll pretending to like him, so they could play the “why I left the left”. Still, he not only could have won a lot of Republicans, but even more people who normally abstaining from voting.
No shit.
Lmao. Historians.
I should have gone to bed at a reasonable time last night instead of doom scrolling, historians say.
Could have had a bad bitch.
If Democrats could hear criticism, they’d be very upset.
Criticism is just a 9 letter word for “Russian asset” to Democrats in 2024.
More voters should have listened to Bernie.
He told people what to do.
Yes, but people forgot that his real message was to get out there an be the change. Bernie’s message was never about relying on or believing in the Democrats, it was that change only happens when we mobilize.
He told us to get out there and run ourselves and get personally involved and invested in our local politics so we can be the revolution… We just chose not to listen to him.
People talk about “the Dems” like they are a monolith.
AOC unseated a long term Congress member who was tightly connected to the New York power structure. She did it by hitting the streets and talking to the locals. She built up voter support and won her primary.
I know it’s an uphill battle, but it is possible to change things.
Yes, this is what I’m saying. I’m not saying take up pitchforks and bring the fight to the democrats like they’re the villain, I’m just saying not to blindly trust them either. They are a part of the system; even if not in permanent institution certainly in effect. Bernie didn’t say go fight the Dems, in fact he proved that you can strategically use them. But don’t think that D = good or D = hero automatically either.
It’s not about fighting the dems, it’s about trusting in ourselves instead of others. It’s about autonomy and the fact that nobody is going to fight the fight for you, you’ve gotta get your knuckles dirty. Don’t trust anyone to do the work for you, red or blue; get out and do the fucking work yourself.
Thank you.
He told everyone to vote for Dems, instead of make a legitimate opposition to the right
God i’ll never forget where i was when he dropped out. I had phone banked and donated and I was watching his concession speech just…wrecked maaan, wrecked at how the DNC et al had ratfucked him and how tilted the game was… and while I’m saltin my booze with tears someone in the group asks him “What do we do now?” and he says something like
“Vote Dem, vote in your primaries”
and my heart fell in that shitty whiskey with the rest. Maaaan, i never knew i still had faith to lose until that moment.
Haha, I feel similar, I was really mad for a while that he just gave in, but at the same time, I think he did what he thought was best for the country at the time, Trump was and will be terrible for the country, and if the DNC was going to fuck over Bernie and he thought he couldn’t possibly win third party and if he DID fight that fight, Trump would assuredly have won.
Of course in hindsight, he won anyway so it would have been better to take the fight to the DNC then.
Then did nothing but carry water for them for the last 4 years.
It is not the voters job to embrace a progressive modern platform nor is it their job to get themselves energized over said policies
But both parties have shoved that false belief down voters throats that is the voters’ faults when they fail to deliver
Not sure exactly the point you’re trying to make, but you’re half right. It is a politicians job to convince voters to support their policies, that’s true, but it’s also equally true that voters should support good policies. While it’s not their “job” to do so, they still suffer the consequences for failing to do so all the same. No matter how you slice it, people were stupid to not listen to Bernie all this time.
In a democracy, it sure as Hell is the voters’ job to do all that. And more, for that matter.
In fact, the voters should be controlling the parties (if not abolishing them entirely), not the other way around!
No no no, the Democratic Party is some magical uncontrollable entity, we must abandon it, making progressive change infinitely more difficult.
/s if it wasn’t obvious. Banana is a bad faith agitator. They desired a GOP victory.
It was the DNC’s job to be clear about Bernie’s message. I voted for him in the 2016 primary even though I was bombarded with “radical socialist regressive left” Bernie articles in my social media feeds at the time.
Unfortunately, most Americans don’t actively seek out information and just accept the picture painted by the news that’s fed to them.
It was the DNC’s job to be clear about Bernie’s message.
LOL the DNC has actively fought against Bernie’s message.
This is a systematic failure. Non-Harris voters are definitely at fault, but so is the DNC for moving further right and abandoning progressives and for sitting on their ass for 4 years.
Enjoy having Trump. I really don’t have any more words for people like you.
You lot gave everyone Trump by refusing to listen to voters concerns.
You apparently have still not learnt.
Lol I actually voted and voted for Harris. FWIW I’m also a former Republican who voted for Trump in ‘16.
If I’m able to fucking learn then so will all these morons who stayed home and didn’t vote because of either their apathy or “principles”.
Those people gave Trump the path to the White House again.
Lol I actually voted and voted for Harris. FWIW I’m also a former Republican who voted for Trump in ‘16.
Oh look, it’s the only voter Harris cared about.
Why does it matter if Harris cared about my vote? I did my job. Did you?
Why does it matter if Harris cared about my vote?
Because seeking votes is what campaigning is.
I did my job. Did you?
I voted for Harris. Harris didn’t do hers. She ran to the right and alienated the left.
Me and others like me warned what would happen as a result, and it was interpreted in all cases as trump support. Got called Russians so often that c/politics eventually made a rule forbidding it. Centrists thought they knew better. Thought that genocide had popular support. Thought that Dick Cheney’s endorsement was a win. No one likes Dick Cheney. Even Republicans hated him before the endorsement. The constant abuse aimed at Muslim voters left Trump an in-road that he exploited. Pretending that the economy was fine and that everything was better now, after all the inflation that it sure as fuck looked like the Biden administration just sat back and watched.
Not to mention the very public failures of the Biden administration on labor: Failing to pass BBB, killing the minimum wage increase, and breaking the rail strike. The Biden administration earned the distrust of workers, and it doesn’t matter how fair you think that is. Harris didn’t do a damned thing to differentiate herself from him on this issue. More of the same was untenable, worse was the only alternative, so people stayed home because they weren’t being represented by either party, and one was insulting them and telling them that they weren’t struggling because the economy was working fine for billionaires.
Hell, the only daylight between Harris and Biden was when she moved to his right. Promising to appoint a Republican to her Cabinet. Campaigning with Liz Cheney. Even Biden wasn’t that tonedeaf.
We warned you. We kept warning you because we knew what was at stake. You were all so fucking pigheaded that you refused to listen.
That’s the real problem with historians. They always talk about the past and not the future.
It is absolutely clear now. The DNC is a private company whose main function is to fund raise, period. If they also win an election then that’s great, but if it comes to a choice between winning and raising money, they will choose raising money. They will never move to the left to win voters if it will cost them fund raising opportunities from the center and right.
This honestly makes so much more sense than anything else. I think you nailed it. Republicans are motivated by money and exerting social control so they write up manifestos (p2025), take over the courts, work hard to disenfranchise voters, lie, cheat, anything is on the table. The DNC does indeed seem fairly comfortable with losing by comparison, despite the fact that the leftist ideals they supposedly dabble in create a moral imperative to never lose. I wonder if Republicans fucking pay the DNC money to run these candidates we all know aren’t the best. They’re just good enough to get votes against mother fucking Trump. But not always good enough to win, barely good enough when they are, typically.
Republicans don’t need to pay the DNC, both are funded by the same billionaires most of the time.
“Nah guys, we’re good on money, thanks. Got enough.”
The democrats represent the group of americans that think money and “american ingenuity” can solve all problems. No problem is a real problem because we can always solve it if we just try real hard to make the current thing better.
Thats why they are the status quo party, its literally their whole founding belief.
The republicans are a party of changing backwards, which only works sometimes, usually when people are upset: “remember when things weren’t awful…?”
The rest of the parties are thinking long term and are true parties of change but you need money to make it in politics, or else not enough people even know you exist at the higher political levels. There were I think five “third” parties on my ballot but I only ever heard people talk about one or two of them.
I’m not sure if its more likely the democrat party collapses out of disinterest and a third party replaces them, or if the democrat party will become a true party of change for the future.
It could just continue on as the party of “America is amazing and will always be amazing so vote for us for more amazing.”
And the rich.
Imo, you’ve got all the prices. However, I would put them in a different order.
Short answer: Republican or Democrat, the candidate that spends the most wins. Therefore, fund raising is winning.
There’s a small group of king-makers in the US and the candidate who offers them the most becomes president. Recently, the people who decide who gets to be president has started to include social media companies and amazon, who hosts half the Internet. Trump also cozied up to the American owner of the company the owns tiktok. Thats how he won. Trumps also great for social media engagement and news channel views.
Even candidates who happen to be better than the republican candidate, no democratic hopeful worth being of “the left” will ever be given enough money to become the president of America. Even if they started from a position that would appeal to them, they would have to compromise on everything that made them that in order to be allowed anywhere near the Whitehouse by the American ultra wealthy.
What you’re seeing isn’t the failure of the Democrats to correctly triangulate but the strength of the American ultra wealthy consent manufacturing machine.
I don’t disagree those factors are at play, but they’re not as important as you seem to think in this day and age.
Bernie had real grassroots support and the dems stomped it out. The key is populist rhetoric and speaking about change, the DNC has basically been running on “not Trump” and “well things are bad but they would be worse under Trump.” while that is true, that’s not a winning message, give people something real to fight for and you’ll win support.
On the contrary, they’re more important now than they’ve ever been. There also hasn’t been an election where the highest spender didn’t win. Its THE determining factor.
The same people who fund presidential campaigns for Republicans also spend lots of money on influencing democratic nominee choices. The whole things been captured.
Its like you all can’t see the woods for the trees, in the politest way possible. You see the state of trump and all the things that make him an aweful candidate and you say “how could the dems not beat that” instead of “what on earth could exert so much influence that even being that terrible couldn’t stop him?”
There’s no amount of “the dems not having a strong enough message” that overcomes the divide in the candidates, without huge influence. Their campaign wasn’t great but no where close enough to lose to someone like trump, in a fair fight. It would’ve had to have been utterly shocking from start to finish and, as bad as it was, it wasn’t that bad.
You really think Trump outspent Harris? You’d be wrong, go look at the data, trump just went on spaces “normal” people listen, such as podcasts, where Harris didn’t.
He spoke about how America is broken, he gave incorrect reasons why, and is lying about helping people with his policies, but he didn’t lie and tell people everything is fine like the dems
Republican or Democrat, the candidate that spends the most wins. Therefore, fund raising is winning.
you do know that in all last 3 elections dnc outspent gop by more than 50% ? last time we raised less than gop was with bush in 2004. harris raised more than 1.6 billion while trump raised about a billion. 600 million extra money they get is for not having a candidate with anti-rich anti-establishment anti-israel policies. hillary was similar story yet we barely saw her campaigning compared to trump. where does all this money go ?
compare that to jill stein who raised 2 million. dnc probably spent 10 times that money on just smearing her.
I’m not thrilled with the DNC either, but I’m not buying this whole idea that they are shooting themselves in the foot on purpose. The DNC does better when they win elections.
In previous elections, the candidate that raised the most money was more likely to win. Also, a moderate Democrat won the last election. They made the decisions they made in this election cycle because they thought it was their best chance of winning.
I don’t have access to the data that they have to determine whether the leftist that Lemmy wants on the ticket could actually win the general.
I’d certainly like to believe that it’s just that simple and all the DNC needs to do is put up a pro-Palestine Democratic Socialist and the election is in the bag… I just don’t know if that’s the reality on the ground. If that is not the reality on the ground, are the leftists that stayed home still committed to their protest? Or is there a point at which they would admit that we haven’t had a true leftist on the ticket because a true leftist is not viable?
I hope someone can put together some clear data to answer that question soon… I’m afraid that a pro-Palestine Socialist will get crushed by AIPAC funded attack ads about Marxism and supporting terrorism that will really stick with moderates, and that no matter how energized the base is it wouldn’t be enough to win the general.
I am not saying that they are losing on purpose. I’m saying that they are making decisions about policies and candidates based on fund raising rather than on attracting voters. On purpose or not, they did shoot themselves in the foot by courting disaffected Republican voters. Everyone knew they were not going to win a lot of those voters, but they sure did rake in a lot of dough. I believe that is their primary motivation.
I mean the Republicans are doing the same. Lining their pockets as they make decisions. Why is it so foreign to do with one costume rather than the other?
I’m not thrilled with the DNC either, but I’m not buying this whole idea that they are shooting themselves in the foot on purpose. The DNC does better when they win elections.
Grey’s Law applies here.
It’s downright sad that I can’t think of any argument against this.
That never stopped you before. Just scream that they’re a trumper like you did when you were wrong about genocide and didn’t want to admit it.
Despite Kamala Harris’s progressive policies…
Wait, I am not trying to be (overly) mean here but what where they? I just remember her running on a status quo platform.
If she was running on a progressive platform I never heard about it
because it’s not what she campaigned on. She very easily could have run a policy focused campaign and shown the American public how much they would benefit from a Dem president.
Instead, she campaigned on maintaining the status quo, working alongside Republicans, being pro-Israel and being anti-immigration. If the DNC weren’t trying to lose, then I think they’re incompetent.
I think I saw one headline about potentially trying to talk about eventually raising the minimum wage, once
She was progressive by saying she would saying she would have a Republican in her cabinet. So…”progress…?”
You didn’t look. It was out there. See above.
She was so progressive she got the endorsement of noted socialist Dick Cheney.
You know, here’s a bit of sophisticated political theory- people vote for a candidate for different reasons. I voted for Harris because of her campaign policies. Cheney endorsed her for different reasons. It didn’t change Harris’s policies.
People stay home when they aren’t represented.
Both you and Cheney were. I voted for Harris because she stood the best chance of preventing Trump.
“Not trump” wasn’t enough for a lot of voters. Her policies that you and Cheney both found so appealing kept enough people on the couch.
Funny that it’s the first time I see it listed out like that. All while I have seen hundreds of memes and many videos of rallies where the soundbite was content free.
It’s probably me though.
Just you…
…and millions others.
A bad campaign is a bad campaign.
Disclaimer: I voted for her
that doesn’t save you lol. you’re being critical of the chosen DNC candidate. sit down shes talking, blue no matter who, etc.
The chosen ruler, it has to be. The alternative would be a monster, a criminal, a dictator from day one.
It can be no other way then the chosen candidate, voting is just a formality of your “democracy”.
Save me from what lol
The disclaimer from people screaming lesser evil. ;)
You know, the one where she said we need to accept Palestinian deaths so we can get cheaper bread.
Here were some progressive policies promoted by Harris, which we aren’t going to get because people thought Trump would get them cheaper eggs:
Launch a National Health Equity Initiative to address health challenges that disproportionately impact Black men. Take on pharmacy benefit managers Have Medicare cover in-home health care Extend the $35 cap on insulin and $2,000 cap on out-of-pocket spending to all Americans Eliminate the filibuster to restore the Roe v. Wade precedent on abortion Ban corporate price gouging on food and groceries Will not raise taxes for those earning less than $400,000 a year Roll back Trump’s tax cuts for the wealthiest Americans Enact a minimum tax for billionaires Increase the tax rate on long-term capital gains to 28% for those earning at least $1 million a year Expand the child tax credit to $6,000 for families with newborns Quadruple the tax on stock buybacks Provide first-time homebuyers with up to $25,000 for down payments, plus more generous support for first-generation homeowners Build 3 million more rental units and affordable homes Outlaw new forms of price fixing by corporate landlords Pass the Equality Act to protect LGBTQ+ Americans from discrimination Ensure that no former president has immunity for crimes committed while in office Require Supreme Court justices to comply with ethics rules Impose term limits on Supreme Court justices Raise the minimum wage Eliminate taxes on tips Establish paid family and medical leave End sub-minimum wages for tipped workers and people with disabilities Double the number of apprenticeships End four-year college degree requirements for federal jobs where appropriate Limit businesses from “unnecessarily” using criminal arrest histories, convictions, and credit scores in employment decisions Sign the pro-labor PRO Act and the Public Service Freedom to Negotiate Act Generate 25 million new business applications Expand the startup expense tax deduction for new businesses from $5,000 to $50,000 Increase the share of federal contract dollars going to small businesses Provide 1 million loans to Black entrepreneurs, fully forgivable up to $20,000 Legalize recreational marijuana Enact a regulatory framework for cryptocurrency Extend the expired Affordable Connectivity Program to support internet access
Glancing over that word salad, it looks like a pile of bandaids on capitalism.
Here’s a list of actually progressive things that would do what her list would be pretending to do and more:
Universal Healthcare. Wealth cap. Breaking up any corporation that is in more than one industry. Universal education. Complete medical and student debt forgiveness. Complete cessation of aid to governments engaged in war crimes. Complete eradication of for-profit weapon manufacturing. Universal Basic Income.
So enable fascism then eh? Because you can’t have socialism?
Still not great from a messaging perspective. Better ways to reach people who aren’t politics nerds or policy wonks:
Medical care will be affordable, so you can go see your doctor any time you or your family need to. If your kid gets sick, you can be there for them and help them get better without worrying about how to pay for care. You’ll get paid better, no more of the “boss gets a dollar, I get a dime” crap. No more stress about setting aside a college fund for your kids. They’ll be able to go to school, guaranteed. Strong American morals mean we’re not going to send our tax money to fund war and atrocities on the other side of the planet. If you lose your job, the government will have your back with enough money to survive on until you get back on your feet, no questions asked.
Goddamn, why can’t Democrats say this stuff, instead of word salad like, “Launch a National Health Equity Initiative to address health challenges that disproportionately impact Black men.” WTF does any of that even mean?
JFC, I’m not messaging, it’s not my job to “message”. Someone said somethings that are not true and I’m listing policies that refute that claim in the very limited format allowed here.
Right, and this isn’t rhetorical combat. You are correct, and I was continuing the train of thought.
A regulatory framework for the scam known as crpyto is “progressive”?
Yeha America really needs to embrace leftism and not this “progressive” neolib branding.
So, you think it SHOULDn’t be regulated? Capitalism is a fucking scam. It’s legal though and isn’t going to be replaced any time soon. In the meantime regulate the hell out of it to reduce its negative effects
See this is the difference between the left and the right. You see a huge list of policies and focus on the one that you have some nebulous objection to, ignore everything else and don’t even have a substantive criticism of what you apparently don’t like. The right will see a big list of policies, focus on the one they agree with, and claim that everything else is just nonsense and won’t really be enacted. Ideological purity, smh. The perfect is the enemy of the good.
indeed. genocide was the big bad one this year. too bad.
And all she needed was one lousy photon of daylight between herself and Bidenyahu.
Well yeah I think even the first month was abhorrent and once the Palestinian health ministry started to lose track of the actual dead, which was basically about a month or two in, it was obviously an atrocity that was, if not already genocide (yeah it was), at least sparkling ethnic cleansing with a familiar bouquet. There is no excuse for that, and weapon provisions to Israel should’ve been immediately withheld indefinitely in the aftermath. No question. But permitting the guy who not only wants to speed up that process, but is also awful on a thousand other metrics, to take the reins is probably a case of cutting off your nose to spite your face…
Oh it definitely is, for many a genocide is a genocide. You dont get to play the moral shades continuum once you reach that level of atrocity. So here we are.
You also need to realize that many states will be insulated from the worst of trump via our local government. So in reality life will go on for us, foreign policy will go to shit but shrug. Not much we can do there.
And yet the only campaign ads I ever saw from her were clips of Donald Trump saying stupid shit.
I voted harris, but I don’t blame anyone for thinking that a Harris win would be a repeat of the last four years
Wait… I have seen these before. Like 10 plus years ago it feels like.
If Biden is offering down payment assistance for first time home buyers, could you please direct me to the applications please? Thanks!
Well he talked about maybe looking into what it would mean to offer it. Just like I guess she did?
When did she say the supreme court stuff or the anti-corporate stuff?
Google it.
Good one.
