• bluejay@lemm.ee
    link
    fedilink
    English
    arrow-up
    2
    ·
    6 days ago

    People are quick to forget the second amendment exists for situations like this.

    “A well regulated Militia being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms shall not be infringed.”

    “being necessary to the security of a free State” being the key point here. I find it ironic that every time anyone tries to pass any gun legislation the right cry foul saying they need to defend themselves from a tyrannical government. Then literally elect an outspoken tyrant. Neo-liberals (diet conservatives basically) are so busy jerking themselves off about how great they are, forgot why the second amendment exists. Despite all the cries for help, scared of fascism, they did nothing to actually prepare for the perceived threat. If it came down to it, toe to toe, left vs right, they’d get slaughtered. They’re afraid of guns.

    Now am I saying we need a violent coup d’etat? Nah. But some people are wholly convinced Trump is going to go full on fascist. Do things like invoke the insurrection act, declare martial law and suspend habeas corpus. To those people, y’all need to rethink your stance on arms. If it’s coming and you want to stop that freight train? That’s war. And you’re not ready.

    • LucidNightmare@lemm.ee
      link
      fedilink
      arrow-up
      9
      ·
      6 days ago

      My guy…

      They can drop bombs on you from hundreds of miles away via an unmanned drone…

      Would you people please remember the day and age we are in now? Holy shit.

      • CharlesDarwin@lemmy.world
        link
        fedilink
        English
        arrow-up
        3
        ·
        5 days ago

        Yes, this. I always laugh at the meal team 6 types that think they are going to be the Wolverines or whatever the fuck if Clinton, or Obama, or Biden were to get all tyrannical on them (yeah, right).

        If some Democratic president were to ever actually go after these yokels like they imagine, they’d fold so goddamn fast.

        And that goes for ANY group in the United States. But no one else but the extremist right jerks off about resisting Big Government with their little toys.

      • chiliedogg@lemmy.world
        link
        fedilink
        arrow-up
        2
        arrow-down
        1
        ·
        5 days ago

        The guy operating the drone is still allergic to bullets. So is the politician giving the orders.

        Submarines, stealth fighters, etc are good for fighting militaries, not anonymous armed civilians.

        Insurrections armed with small arms drove the US military out of Iraq and Iran, and that’s with none of the US military changing sides because they were being ordered to aguaranheir own people.

        Shy of carpet-bombing cities and nuking the countryside, a tyrannical government can’t fully shield itself from an armed population. And when they start committing that level of atrocity, the military starts breaking into factions.

      • bluejay@lemm.ee
        link
        fedilink
        English
        arrow-up
        1
        arrow-down
        2
        ·
        edit-2
        6 days ago

        Na you’re right better to just roll over and die. The war in the middle east we won decisively without question because bombs. Same with Vietnam.

        American military relies on three things. American people who want to fight, logistic networks and symmetrical warfare. Take away one of the legs like in the middle east and the us military becomes useless.

        Try again.

          • knightly the Sneptaur@pawb.social
            link
            fedilink
            arrow-up
            2
            ·
            5 days ago

            There’s a reason why America stopped doing conscription during Vietnam. Turns out that 90% of folks can’t be trained to willingly shoot people and a large fraction of the remainder would sooner shoot their own commanding officer than some poor foreign kid.

            • LucidNightmare@lemm.ee
              link
              fedilink
              arrow-up
              1
              arrow-down
              1
              ·
              4 days ago

              And what about when they threaten those people with killing their family, friends, and anything else they hold dear? What about demanding them or go to jail? Lose their home? Lots of things can happen.

        • aesthelete@lemmy.world
          link
          fedilink
          arrow-up
          1
          arrow-down
          1
          ·
          edit-2
          6 days ago

          Guerrilla resistance could prevent the US military from ever implementing full-on fascism in this country no matter the military, to that much I agree. But you’d need people to give a shit. They really do not seem to.

    • Todd Bonzalez@lemm.ee
      link
      fedilink
      arrow-up
      1
      ·
      6 days ago

      Honestly, Democrats should just en masse go full pro-gun, and push the “to protect ourselves from tyranny” narrative and fucking dare Republicans to disagree.

    • aesthelete@lemmy.world
      link
      fedilink
      arrow-up
      0
      ·
      edit-2
      6 days ago

      Neo-liberals (diet conservatives basically) are so busy jerking themselves off about how great they are, forgot why the second amendment exists.

      That isn’t why the second amendment exists, but you’re too busy jerking yourself off about how much better you are than “liberals” to know that.

    • NABDad@lemmy.world
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      0
      ·
      6 days ago

      Waco & Ruby Ridge.

      People don’t forget. They just get their asses handed to them when they try.

      How the hell is Jim Bob going to fight the federal government with his AR-15 when the government can drop a missile on him from a remote control drone?

      • Zron@lemmy.world
        link
        fedilink
        arrow-up
        2
        ·
        6 days ago

        Jim bob can’t, because they’ll kill him easily.

        Now if there’s thousands of Jim bobs, all moving around, things get tricky. Now you need people on the ground looking for these people.

        We spent 20 years in the Middle East fighting this exact kind of war, and guess who still exists? The fucking terrorists.

    • kryptonianCodeMonkey@lemmy.world
      link
      fedilink
      arrow-up
      0
      ·
      edit-2
      6 days ago

      The 2nd amendment is not and was never meant to be a permission slip to use against the sitting US government, tyrannical or otherwise. This is a rhetoric, a myth, a deliberate misinterpretation that has spread far, but holds no basis is reality. It is absurd on the face of it.

      The idea you are proporting is that there is a legal window for insurrection in the constitution so long as it is used in defense of a “free state” against a supposedly tyrannical administration. If such a legal window exists, it would mean that A) there are such times that violent overthrow of the government is sanctioned by said government, B) that any old member of a violent coup gets to determine that their actions are legal by their intent to secure a free state, and C) that if any semblance of the original government survives the coup attempt, that their hands are bound by the constitution and the attempted violent overthrowers can face no legal consequences. What’s more, this supposed right will be upheld by the government that is, again, so tyrranical as to make it legal to destroy it at gunpoint. This is just patently foolish to believe.

      Make no mistake. If you or anyone else attempts to or does use violent force against ANY form of the US government, you will be violently resisted, arrested or killed by that government. You will not be given any protection from the 2nd amendment for this, ESPECIALLY under a tyrranical administration. If you choose to take such action, just know that you do so under no protection under the law and you will either win, die trying, or spend the remainder of your life in prison. Those are the only outcomes. You will be inciting a civil war. Also if you do win, good luck creating a new stable government in a politically divided nation after a violent overthrow.

      • grue@lemmy.world
        link
        fedilink
        English
        arrow-up
        1
        ·
        6 days ago

        You do realize that the people who wrote the Second Amendment had literally just finished violently overthrowing their “rightful” government (the British monarchy), right?

        • kryptonianCodeMonkey@lemmy.world
          link
          fedilink
          arrow-up
          0
          ·
          edit-2
          6 days ago

          And they did so illegally, as would anyone else that tries it now. I’m not saying there is no imaginable situation where insurrection isnt warranted, righteous, and even necessary. But it will never be legal. If you disagree, please explain how you imagine the 2nd amendment would protect insurrectionists that kill government officials, police, or soldiers.

          • grue@lemmy.world
            link
            fedilink
            English
            arrow-up
            2
            ·
            edit-2
            4 days ago

            So? The person upthread never claimed the Second Amendment makes insurrection “legal,” only that it makes it possible by keeping the populace armed. Why are you making a strawman argument?

            • kryptonianCodeMonkey@lemmy.world
              link
              fedilink
              arrow-up
              1
              arrow-down
              1
              ·
              edit-2
              4 days ago

              They are arguing that the fundamental purpose 2nd amendment is to allow the overthrow the sitting government. To make it a legally protected right of the citizenry to take back a supposedly tyrannical government by lethal force and war. That is false.

              • grue@lemmy.world
                link
                fedilink
                English
                arrow-up
                1
                ·
                4 days ago

                He never said anything like that. You’re reading your own interpretation into it and then objecting to that.

                • kryptonianCodeMonkey@lemmy.world
                  link
                  fedilink
                  arrow-up
                  1
                  arrow-down
                  1
                  ·
                  edit-2
                  4 days ago

                  People are quick to forget the second amendment exists for situations like this.

                  “being necessary to the security of a free State” being the key point here.

                  the right cry foul saying they need to defend themselves from a tyrannical government. Then literally elect an outspoken tyrant. Neo-liberals […] forgot why the second amendment exists. […] If it came down to it, toe to toe, left vs right, they’d get slaughtered.

                  some people are wholly convinced Trump is going to go full on fascist. […] To those people, y’all need to rethink your stance on arms. If it’s coming and you want to stop that freight train? That’s war.

                  How do you interpret all that if not that the 2nd amendment exists to overthrow/incite war with a tyrranical government?

                  • grue@lemmy.world
                    link
                    fedilink
                    English
                    arrow-up
                    1
                    ·
                    4 days ago

                    How do you interpret all that if not that the 2nd amendment exists to overthrow/incite war with a tyrranical government?

                    It does exist to do that. To make it possible. But you kept arguing that it existed to make it “a legally protected right,” which is a different thing.

                    How many times do I have to explain to you that “possible” and “legal” are not equivalent before you finally get it?